Construction Suicide Prevention Week takes place Sept. 14 through 18 this year. In preparation for that week, we spoke with Stephanie Lemek, the founder and CEO of The Wounded Workforce, an organization that works to build resilient, trauma-informed workplaces.

In this episode of Women at WIRC, she shares with us her human resources background that got her into her current work, how she approaches difficult conversations about mental health, and important resources to support those who are struggling with suicidal ideation. 

And see the sidebar at the end of the transcription for links to valuable resources.

Welcome back to Women at WIRC, where our editors from sister media brands Pro Builder, Pro Remodeler, and Custom Builder sit down with standout women across home building, remodeling, and design. We'll share their stories, their business insights, and explore how women are reshaping the residential building industry.

Rich Binsacca: Hello, I'm Rich Binsacca, editorial director for Pro Builder, and in honor of Construction Suicide Prevention Week, Sept. 14 through 18, my guest for this episode is Stephanie Lemek, founder and CEO of the Wounded Workforce and executive director of its Center for Construction Mental Health.

In those roles and through those organizations, Stephanie and her team help building contractors confront an industry where various working conditions and cultural stereotypes drive some of the highest suicide and mental health risk rates in any industry sector. Using the building sector's established and trusted tools and controls for physical safety on the job site as a model, she helps organizations engineer mental health risks out of the workplace Grounded in nearly two decades of human resources experience across successful and respected contractors, home builders, Fortune 500 companies, and startups, Stephanie's message to the industry is simple: change the conditions, not the coping, and help stop the rampant and tragic rate of suicide in construction.

Well, it's great to meet you. Thank you for making the time. I appreciate it. Of course, maybe the best place to start is just to kind of give me a little background on you, where you're from, all that stuff, and then, you know, how you got into this, which is a really important issue and a important thing to bring to our audience and shine a light on it as much as we can.

Stephanie Lemek: Absolutely. So, I spent actually almost two decades in-house as an HR leader. So one of those interesting people who got into HR on purpose, which is unique. But 10 of those years I actually spent in the construction industry.

So I worked with some major general contractors who worked in the heavy civil world, also in the commercial space, and then I also worked with national home builders and a real estate development company that worked in building apartments, building homes to rent. So I spent a lot of my career actually inside the industry.

Now, not swinging a hammer, but you know, I did get my work boots dirty on occasion, and I got to see firsthand what it's actually like to do the work, and what the experience is like for the people who are building our communities. And so I really got into this work because as I was deciding to go out on my own and build my own business, I started going back to what I know, going back to, you know, construction, going back to HR.

And a lot of what I was hearing was the fact that, you know, obviously construction has a challenge around attracting and retaining talent, especially attracting and retaining diverse talent, including women in the industry. And at the same time, we're tackling really a very serious issue in construction, and that construction has the highest rate of suicide of any industry in the United States.

So both of these things, you know, while they are different, there's actually a significant overlap in how we create workplaces. How do we create an industry where individuals are supported and an opportunity to be successful? And that overlap is really where I felt like I could contribute something unique, and that's how my organization, the Wounded Workforce, came to be.

And I'm fortunate to be able to do this work, and now very fortunate to be able to give back a little bit more as a member of the board of directors for Construction Suicide Prevention Week, a founding council member for Project BUILT, and a steering committee member for the Construction Mental Health and Well-Being Conference that's in its sixth year next year.

Rich: Great. Well, thank you for that. So given your experience, given what you've seen throughout your career and certainly now, what is driving this suicide rate in construction? What can you point to or I'm sure it's not just one thing, but what are the major contributors to this?

Stephanie: Because it is a scary stat, and obviously life-changing for a lot of families and companies, even. It is a really scary statistic, and I like to look at the statistic in two different ways. And I like to look at kind of the conditions of construction, what it's like to work in construction.

First and foremost, it is a very physically demanding job. The people out there actually building the work, there are, you know, aches, pains, injuries that come along with that, that have an impact on our mental health. The safety element of construction is also another component of that.

You know, I've heard countless times in my career where a superintendent would say, "The job's always looking for a new way to kill you." That's something not a lot of people navigate in their day-to-day lives, and knowing that, you know, there is that risk does take a toll. So we have that kind of physical toll that comes into play in this work.

There's also an element of loneliness that comes into construction, and it shows up in a couple of different ways. You know, for some individuals, they may be building or doing work far away from their friends and families. Maybe they're on a project or a job site, away from their home for weeks or months at a time.

And even if they're not, a lot of these individuals are working incredibly long hours. So there's that element of loneliness that can come up if you're getting to work before the kids even wake up, and then you're getting home from work after the family's already had dinner. That can be incredibly draining.

And I've heard those stories from countless individuals. That issue of loneliness really becomes something that is a challenge. And let's face it, construction is some of the most stressful work there is. Construction is filled with a bunch of professional problem solvers, as I like to say, but that's stress.

Talent shortages, worker shortages, compressed timelines, challenges around materials and schedules. All of those things add up and build up, and those are certainly aspects that build into the industry and, and why we see this increased rate. Something not a lot of people talk about that I really like to highlight, though, is there are some structural aspects of the demographics of construction that also are part of the reason we see these higher numbers.

So first and foremost, men are far more likely to die by suicide than women, and so we know that construction is heavily male-dominated. So because we have a male-dominated industry, we know that statistically men are much more likely to die by suicide. We see that correlation come through, and specifically, Native American men and white men have that highest demographic rate of death by suicide.

We also know that construction is a great place for veterans to continue or build a new career. And one of the amazing things I love about construction and the industry, you know, my dad, he is a disabled veteran, and so being able to see individuals have that opportunity is incredible. But we also know that veterans have a higher rate of challenges as it relates to trauma, post-traumatic stress disorder, substance misuse disorders, and of course, also suicide.

So again, a higher veteran population, we're more likely to see those challenges come through in this population. And finally, you know, we do have a more diverse population in construction, which I love seeing. But the challenge around that is when you are a member of a diverse population, whether that is gender, race, um, national origin, those things, sometimes you're the only one on a job site.

Sometimes it can increase feelings of loneliness. Sometimes it can make structural issues that exist even more challenging. And so some of those demographic challenges also feed into why we see such a high number. And it's important to look at both of those things as we approach how we find a solution to this crisis in the industry.

Rich: Great. Well, thank you for that, and it is obviously a complicated issue. But what you say in terms of all of those factors point to, like you said, kind of a situation where more suicides are going to be more prevalent. So, we talked a little bit about your background, but I kind of want to get to your point, kind of boots on the ground.

Yeah. So when you're navigating construction sites, and looking at conditions and talking to workers and managers, both as a woman but also given your purpose and your message and the suggested protocols that you make to these folks, what gets you in the door?

Stephanie: What is something where people go, "Yeah, please come to my job site," or, "Please come to my office and let's talk about this"? It's tricky. And so, I have kind of an analogy I make. You know, I love to knock on the door and say, "Hey, I want to talk about suicide prevention. I want to talk about mental health and wellbeing in construction."

And there are some great folks that invite you in the door, and those, of course, are amazing advocates for this work. But the truth is a lot of folks are slamming that door right in your face. And, you know, folks who have worked in the industry understand that that's an experience you're going to have in this environment.

So I jokingly say, "You know, I don't necessarily even need to get into the front door. I just want to get into the house some way. So maybe I'm knocking on the back door. Maybe we're climbing through an attic window. How can we get people talking about this?" And there's a few different avenues. I think number one, the most important thing to do when you're speaking to construction professionals is speak their language.

A lot of folks with amazing clinical backgrounds and research backgrounds are very passionate about this work, but they don't know how to talk to a superintendent or a foreman. And so really, you know, meeting folks where they are and sharing that language is super powerful. I also do something a little bit unique whenever I'm speaking to these groups.

I actually actively invite them to call bullshit on me, and trust me, they love yelling out bullshit when I am presenting. It's fun for them, but really it allows them to have conversations, to talk about what their life is really like, and that's the whole point. We have to meet people where they are.

And so a couple of other avenues I always recommend people explore is there's the fact that this industry has to change. You know, the construction industry is the crux, the bottleneck of the future of our society. We hear people talking about AI and all of these incredible things.

Well, at the same time, those of us in the industry know that construction is kind of the linchpin of how we get there. Whether it's, you know, building enough housing to support the individuals, to support this technology, whether it is building those data centers, construction really is about the future for all of us, even outside of the industry.

So I think talking about that and how we fast-forward the industry so it works for everyone, so we're able to attract more people and retain people without burning them out, that's a great entry point for this conversation, and to proactively talk about mental health and wellbeing, and then, of course, how we prevent crises like suicide or drug overdose deaths.

The other one I love to talk about, if you've ever talked to someone out in the field and you know why they do the work they do, a lot of people will tell you about how they are building better lives for their families. They care deeply about their families and the people they're working with. So sometimes the best way into the house, the best way to have the conversation is talking about how they might be able to help support someone else.

So talking about these resources, what we can do to better support mental health and prevent suicide deaths. Maybe it's not for them. Maybe it's for their kids or their kids' friends or people in their community. It doesn't matter, because we're getting the information in their hands, and we're getting them the tools to have conversations about it, you know, with themselves, with their families, but then, of course, with their crews as well.

Rich: Right. And, and a couple things: One is, who do you want in the room when you do that? Who do you want to be speaking to when you go to a builder or a contractor, or even a job site? I mean, who, you know, is it just the superintendent or the foreman, or is it like, "No, I need to have leadership, I need to have workers," the whole gamut?

Stephanie: I want to talk to everyone. I want everyone to be part of the conversation. I think there is some nuance to that, though. I think it's really important to have these conversations in spaces where people will be comfortable having that dialogue, and having the dialogue at the right level.

So yes, I want to talk to leaders, but I want to talk to leaders separately, and I want to have some of those strategic conversations, some of those conversations that can also get to some of the policies, some of the systems, some of the supports that can help us really kind of bolster or scaffold a more healthily, a more mentally healthy workplace.

And then I want to talk to your on-site leaders as a group. And I want them to have the space where they feel like they can speak up. They're not worried about their project manager or the company owner listening in on what they have to say. You know, kind of creating that more psychologically safe environment.

And then yeah, I want to talk to everyone. And again, it's, you know, it's shifting that message, you know, getting folks to step away from work and have these conversations or have these trainings. It can be challenging, because they're focused on getting it done, getting that work done. And so thinking about how we do connect with each individual out in the field is important, too.

It's just shaping that message to them so it is impactful and it's accessible to them in a way that works both from, you know, how we get that to them, and also, too, you know, if there are language barriers, making sure that we are, you know, doing these things and addressing them in a language and culturally sensitive way as well.

Rich: Okay. Right, that's a great point. Yeah, because we know that, as you mentioned earlier, the construction industry is very diverse, and there are those language barriers or cultural barriers or nuances that you need to be aware of, for sure. Do most of the folks that you talk to and go to with this, with the tools that you have and the processes that you're suggesting to create a safer environment, are they aware? Have they been affected by it? Or are they just like, "I had no idea, you know, that this was really going on"?

Stephanie: It's a little bit of a mix. I would say we've seen a great effort over the course of the last six years to really get the industry talking, specifically around statistics we see around suicide deaths and then overdose deaths.

And so there is a level of awareness, especially at that leadership level. Safety professionals are very well tapped into this and have done a lot of great work around it. But I would say when you really kind of peel it back, I had a superintendent say it once, you know, it's about all that crap that just happens to all of us at some point in our life.

And when we kind of strip away some of the more clinical language and talk to people about challenges, about struggles, around, you know, those hardships that come and go, I think really construction does understand that this is happening. Um, construction professionals spend a lot of time with each other, with their crews, so they know that those hardships of life are showing up.

And unfortunately, a lot of times when I'm talking to a room of people, they are raising their hands and saying that they have known someone who has died by suicide. They know someone who has struggled with addiction or lost their life to a battle with addiction. And so it really is staggering.

I think the biggest change, though, is we're talking about it now. I don't think this is something that wasn't true about the industry 15 years ago. I think the difference is, if we're talking about it now, and we're focused on doing something and, and making a change for the future of work.

Rich: Excellent, and one follow-up. So, kind of back to what I was talking about, about how you get in the door. Do you now have folks knocking on your door and saying, "Hey, can you please come and help us make sure that this job site or this company or this operation, or all our job sites," obviously, if they've got multiple, you know, kind of, uh, are the best we can make them in terms of, um, you know, reducing stress and being safe and things like that?

Stephanie: Absolutely. And it is so exciting when I get those opportunities to actually have those proactive conversations about how do we do this work? How do we th- make things better? Um, you know, a point of pride for me is, you know, the Wounded Workforce launched a couple years ago, the Building Resilience Construction Mental Health Certification.

And what it is, is it is mental health built exactly for the folks out in the field. And it is incredible to have those conversations and to [00:19:00] go into rooms with the toughest, um, superintendents you've ever met, those crossed arms, looking at you like, "Who is, who is this gal coming to tell me these things?"

And by the end of it, to have people say, "Yes, you changed my mind," or, "Yes, I'm gonna take something with me and do something a little bit different," those small changes are huge wins, and I think we can't discount that. Um, so really for me, the most exciting thing is empowering the people who are doing the work to go and make this culture change.

So that is what's most exciting for me. I will say, unfortunately, the dominant trend though I see when people are reaching out to, you know, myself, to, to others in the industry, oftentimes it is a reaction to a loss. Um, and you know, it is certainly understandable, and I give so much credit to the people who, you know, pick up the pieces and do the hard work of responding to the loss and moving forward with how can we make things different? But if I could change one thing, it would be a shift from that reaction to getting proactive about having these conversations before we are having a crisis impact our crews.

Rich: Okay, let's, let's shift into some strategies here, because I think the audience is going to be interested in, okay, what, what are the things? What are the tactics, the processes, the things that you suggest? And maybe it's somewhat case by case, but I imagine there's a lot of crossover regardless. But let's talk about that. So when you go in and you get to the point of saying, "Okay, here's what I see, here's what I think we need to do," let's talk about, you know, the things you suggest.

Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. The first thing I suggest is a bit of a mindset shift. So, a lot of times I think where we've fallen down in terms of mental health support and training in the workplace is we've scared people. We've made it seem really hard. And I actually am a big believer that construction's pretty good at mental health interventions.

They actually just don't recognize they're doing it. And a mental health intervention isn't, "Hello, I am here to talk to you about your mental health." No one talks like that, and certainly not in construction. It's, "Hey, what's going on with you, man? You've been late to work a couple of times this week.

Is everything okay?" Or, "Hey, you know, what's going on? You haven't seemed like yourself. Like, let's catch up. Let's go have lunch." Or, "You know, I know you have a tough custody battle going on. Like, how are things going? Are you taking care of yourself?"

Superintendents, foremen, I love them. They're a bunch of gossips. They're in the middle of everyone's business. That's a mental health intervention. Talking to people, getting to know them, caring about them as human beings. That's all we're asking for, and then a couple extra steps after that. And I think reframing that for this industry is so important and so powerful because it gives credit to the people already doing a lot of the hard work, and then it gives them some additional tools to do it a little bit better and maybe not carry so much of the weight themselves.

So that's the number one thing I like to talk about because I think that shift in perspective is so powerful. The next one I like to point to is the construction industry was completely revolutionized in terms of safety over the course of the last few decades. Well, how did we do that? We built safety into the way we do business.

And so let's think about mental health and wellbeing in the same way. So if you are doing a stretch and flex in the morning, if you hold a toolbox talk every day or once a week, build mental health into those sessions. There are a lot of great free resources around mental health toolbox talks that, again, are very applicable for this audience.

It's not, "I am a robot. Let's talk about mental health." It's talking about, you know, bringing stress home or the challenge of loneliness or, you know, how to get connected to resources. And so those are incredible ways to build it into the conversation. And there's actually quite a few unions that are actually building in the requirements around these toolbox talks as part of their collective bargaining agreements, which is kind of wild.

But this is a great way to start building that muscle to get people talking about it. Put resources up everywhere. One of my favorite things is,if you can, if you have a porta-potty on your job site, throw a QR code up there that folks can take a screenshot of to get connected to resources like 988 or Construction Industry Alliance for Suicide Prevention, a crisis text line, Sober Sidekick, a ton of amazing resources. Your EAP. Make that available. Get the resources out and available and easy to access as much as possible.

And then if you do have the capacity to do this, you do have that time for investment, you know, train your foreman, train your superintendents as leads, as, you know, people who can be kind of first responders or supports with some of the great training that's available.

You know, I mentioned the building resilience training we offer, but there is a ton out there. There is QPR—question, persuade, refer training—around suicide prevention. There is Vital Cog, which is a construction-specific suicide prevention training. There's Mental Health First Aid. There are tons of different tools and resources to get folks the information and the tools to kind of take those extra steps to do a little bit more.

Then also recognize that empowering your workers to have these conversations themselves, to invite them to have conversations, invite that level of peer support is really powerful, too. And then for leaders, here I've got the really tough work for you. Find ways to have more predictable scheduling.

Find ways to make sure we're not running seven days a week, 12 hours a day. How can we make this work a little bit more sustainable? How do we find ways to offer financial wellness support? You know, financial worries are something that is top of mind for so many people right now. It's showing up at your job site.

It's impacting people's mental health. Structurally, at that leadership level, are you having those conversations to think about what supports are we putting in place that can help ease some of these stressors for our employees? Or if not, can jump in to provide some support when they do experience such challenges that sometimes come up for us at many points in our lives.

Rich: Exactly, yeah. Those are all excellent, excellent tools and, and resources that builders and building owners and everybody on the job site can avail themselves to. It seems to me that talking about like a toolbox talk or really kind of verbalizing the issue and talking about mental health and substance use and overdose, and as you mentioned earlier, a lot of crews consider themselves to be like family, and trust each other and talk to each other about their lives, if not this specifically, but what they're doing. And like you said, maybe a custody battle or some other kind of life-changing stress that's happening personally to them, not so much even professionally. And so that seems to follow that if you did have a toolbox talk with people that trust each other already, that's going to go over a little easier, because they're like, "Okay, this is my, this is my friend. This is my, my brother," or whatever, "and I care about him." And it kind of verbalizes it to the point where it's just, "Wow, I, I didn't know that," or, "I knew that he was going through that, but yes, there's another step of making sure that he's okay or she's okay." I think that's maybe an environment that, like you said, builders and foremen and others don't really connect that one to the other.

But it is that kind of family environment where you've already got that, that baseline in there to do that. And then like you said, there's kind of this self, like if, if I don't wanna talk about it or I don't know how to talk about it, even if I'm going through some of that, is that you've got these, you know, different resources that are all over the place on the job site and in the company and whatever, that, that people can go, "Okay, that's, I might need that. I'm going to take a screenshot of that QR code or call that 800 number.” But it's there for them. It's not something that they necessarily have to kind of bring out into the open. When you do suggest these things, and I don't know how much you actually maybe run them or train them on some of this stuff, like a toolbox talk about mental health.

But a lot of it is saying, "Here are the tools, and here's what I suggest, and now it's up to you to kind of put it all in place." How much assurance do you have or confidence do you have that they’re actually going to follow through? And do you personally follow through, or do you say, "I've done what I can. I've given them what they need. They seem to understand and respect it. I have to just trust that they're going to put, if not everything, then most of this in place”?

Stephanie: No, I think it's a little bit of a mix. I think there's always a level of trust you have to have that you've given folks the tools and the resources to go and do and make a difference.

I think a lot of it is also giving people the confidence that they have what they need to have the right conversation. Like I said, we scared people a little bit in terms of talking about mental health. But knowing that if they're just showing up and genuinely caring about someone and making it clear that they're there for them and you know, not that they can solve their problems, but they can connect them to real resources, I think that is a huge win.

And I think that the key for me is the hardest thing about people, the hardest thing about HR is we can't make people do anything. We can't force anyone. I think it's about leaving the door open. It's about people knowing that there's a resource, that we can keep trying. Maybe we don't knock it out of the park the first time, but we can keep doing better.

And the real powerful thing is with each incremental change, with each person that is checking in, asking questions, following up with someone on their job site, there is a massive ripple impact. And so this work really scales in a beautiful way, and it's about being persistent. It's about culture change. In many ways it mirrors that culture change around safety we saw in the industry. It's an extension of that, and it's thinking about safety not just of our physical bodies, but also of our minds.

Rich: So, when we first connected it was basically because awareness week is coming up, and we wanted to get this out there, to kind of coincide with that. So, talk to me about awareness week and then some of the results you're seeing from that effort. Yeah, so Construction Suicide Prevention Week this year is Sept. 14 through 18. It is an important week where we can actually talk about what's occurring in the industry, and also we invite people to take a pledge to see how they can impact that.

Stephanie: And this year's theme is building on progress, and we're inviting individuals to pledge to learn at least one new way to seek help for someone in need. And so just the small change, again, that ripple effect is really, really powerful. And some of the results we have seen are pretty heartening.

Obviously there are a lot of people doing work around this, so Construction Industry Alliance for Suicide Prevention, Hard Hat Courage, it's a partnership with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. So a lot of people are doing a lot of amazing work. But recently, the Center for Construction Research and Training provided some updated statistics around some of these mental health challenges we see in construction.

And we've seen that overdose deaths among construction workers aged 16 to 64 fell 28.8% in the last six years, which is huge. And we've also seen a more modest reduction, but we've also seen a reduction of nearly 2% in suicide deaths among construction professionals during this timeframe. Really what's moving the dial is education on opioid risk, fewer prescriptions when we're seeing people having workplace injuries, naloxone availability on job sites, but certainly, you know, talking about it.

Less stigma around mental health, around substance misuse, and better access to treatment and recovery. What we still need though is more people who are part of this conversation, more of that upstream work. So as much as we are dedicated to preventing suicides, I want us to be talking about it proactively.

I want us to be focused on mentally healthy workplaces and crews before we get to the point of crises like substance misuse, substance misuse deaths, and suicidal thoughts and actions. And that is really where we can see, even better results as we have greater commitment to this.

Rich: Terrific. Thank you. Is there something else that we haven't mentioned that you're like, "Let's make sure we get this message across"?

Stephanie: Yeah. I think the biggest thing I would encourage people to do is, if you are curious or interested in doing more, there are so many amazing resources out there. There are, you know, free toolbox talks, materials, resources, speakers from Construction Suicide Prevention Week, the 988 Crisis Hotline.

Your company's EAP is a great resource. But then also there is the Construction Industry Alliance for Suicide Prevention. Hard Hat Courage is another great resource. And again, these are resources that are designed specifically for this industry, so you're not going to have people, you know, going, "Oh my gosh, what is this?" Really, it's tools and resources for them and for those supports.

Rich: Great. Thank you. All right, so this is off-script, but I didn't really ask you this question, but just going back to when you're talking to folks on site, and you mentioned kind of speaking their language, which is exactly the advice I give to people that work with me in terms of how they write articles or things like that, and just like, "Look, you gotta speak their language. You can't come in not knowing that nomenclature, not knowing that culture."

But just give me—and sorry to put you on the spot, but just I'm curious—like what's moved the needle for you to get them to pay attention and respect the fact that you know what they do?

Stephanie: I think this is one of the most important questions we can talk about. I think there's a real social issue in society around blue collar professionals, construction professionals not feeling that their work is respected. And I think that is the key. It very clearly telegraphs your appreciation and respect for the work that they're doing.

And I always start by asking questions. I learn so much amazing information by asking people what's going on at their job. You know, what's the challenge? You know, what's the operation they're working through? What are those challenges? And really listen. And I think starting from there, these are incredibly passionate and skilled workers.

They're excited to talk about their work, and there's so much you can learn about that. I remember at the beginning of my career, I learned, um, from a maintenance mechanic. Um, he, he said, "If you go on a job site and the equipment's all dirty, that job has problems." I was like, "Wait a minute, that doesn't make sense to me.

Like, it's a construction project, of course it's dirty." And then he explained to us, like, well, they need to clean the equipment to perform the right checks and make sure everything's working properly. And so for me, that translated to, okay, I'm sure I'm the HR person, but now I can walk on a job site, and if I see dirty equipment, I see that there's something going on on that job site, and it's time to dig in.

So ask questions. Get curious. You will learn so much about an incredible business, and you'll make it abundantly clear that you respect the work that these folks are doing, and I think that's the most important thing you can do to build that credibility in these conversations.

Rich: Yeah, and you mentioned it earlier, but not only are they gossips in the best way possible, but they also love talking about what they do, and it was kind of like one of those thing that you talked about loneliness and even with your family or friends outside of work where it's such a specialty skill, it's such a mysterious skill to people who don't, who aren't in it.

I was fortunate enough to work construction through college and picked up a lot of things. I wasn't any good at it, but I was at least, you know, exposed to it and learned some things. But that might be too much of a contributing factor where it's like, you certainly don't want to talk about some of the risk, like, "Oh, I almost fell off the roof," or "I saw this friend of mine get hurt," or whatever to your family, because you don't want them to be worried about what you're doing. But also just the technical aspects of it makes it difficult to have a conversation with even a member of your family or a social group outside of work because they just don't get it.

Stephanie: They don't, and they're not necessarily interested, if you will, in that. So I'm sure that contributes to some of that loneliness factor as well. And to me, you know, when I think about the work that I've gotten a chance to do over my career so far and this work that is so incredibly important, you know, I really think about what could be better than having a chance to build the people who are building our communities? They're building the places that we live, where we live our lives.

Rich: It really is that important, and I think when you interact with people, interact with people in construction, making sure they know that they really are that important, that's a big part of this work. Thanks to Stephanie for joining us today, and thanks to you for listening to Women at WIRC.

I encourage you to go to probuilder.com/podcasts to find additional suicide prevention and workforce mental health information at the bottom of the transcript of this episode, as well as past episodes honoring women in residential construction. This podcast is a spinoff of our annual Women in Residential Construction Conference now in its 11th year with a virtual version scheduled for two half days on Sept. 29 and 30.

You can learn more about the conference and register for free by visiting womensconstructionconference.com.

Women at WIRC is a production of Endeavor B2B. Until next time, keep up the good work.